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Howdy ya'll, so I just got a PM from a someone saying I received a warning for some words I said and cited Rule #10 for it. Now, 10% on the warning measuring stick isn't bad, and I probably shouldn't make such a big deal of it, but looking at the rule cited I'm gonna have to say that it doesn't fall into it.
I want to start off by saying I'm sorry @motet if I hurt ya. It was honestly a joke. This thread is not meant to egg on the situation and constitute for ACTUAL harassment. So, bare with me.
Now, to those who don't know, what was this honest joke? Well.
And Rule 10 States:
I only said it once, and only brought it up agains when Chris and May asked why I would say such a thing. I wasn't informed that a single phrase, even if it wasn't a joke, constituted for the harassment clause. It was neither intimidating nor putting aggressive pressure on the one in question.
So my question is: What's the line, if any, between being off-handedly offensive (joking or not) and straight up bullying/harassing someone? They are different, one being maybe a short-hand, one off, or possibly a mistake someone not knowing did and possibly offended or hurt someone, the other one being a prolonged engagement between individuals or groups in a toxic demeanor. Constantly/periodically intimidating them and threatening them. Or maybe it's a misuse of the word, because frankly what I got filed for seemed arbitrary. At least, to me.
From my understanding, the rule SHOULD have been applied if I carried on with calling Motet's posting the ark of the covenant or some stupid shit I could have, and egged it on a bit more. Ignoring ANY pleas to stop it. But yeah. I didn't do that. So if I'M the one reading something wrong, please tell me as well.
Your defense is that making jokes obvious makes them lose taste, and then following up with the "it's just a prank, bro" mentality. The truth of the matter is, it was reported; and not by Lamia. Enough people took offense to how that was worded and that you saw nothing wrong with it. Maybe there was nothing wrong with it, but that's also why it was just a warning. A little heads up to be more mindful about that stuff.
It's actually a violation of these rules:
1. Respect Eachother : Do I need to explain more? Nobody is above or below anyone here. Everyone is equal and we hope you will treat each other so. Learn to respect each other and behave well. And by this, I mean treating everyone like your equal and not point out people’s wrongs rudely. In other words, don’t treat people like they are idiots. If you have problems, consult a staff.
3. Be Understanding : This is important. People are different with different outlooks and different attitudes. Try to be understanding and try not to start fights. Put yourself in the other person’s shoes and think for a bit. Calm yourselves down and just be polite to them.
10. No Harassment : I think this is an understood rule. Watch your words. Remember that some things you say, even if it’s meant as a joke, can hurt people. And if someone kindly tells you to stop, just stop. Carrying it on will only result in getting punished.
Though I do appreciate that you're attempting to calmly and rationally discuss it.
Your defense is that making jokes obvious makes them lose taste, and then following up with the "it's just a prank, bro" mentality. The truth of the matter is, it was reported; and not by Lamia. Enough people took offense to how that was worded and that you saw nothing wrong with it. Maybe there was nothing wrong with it, but that's also why it was just a warning. A little heads up to be more mindful about that stuff.
It's actually a violation of these rules:
1. Respect Eachother : Do I need to explain more? Nobody is above or below anyone here. Everyone is equal and we hope you will treat each other so. Learn to respect each other and behave well. And by this, I mean treating everyone like your equal and not point out people’s wrongs rudely. In other words, don’t treat people like they are idiots. If you have problems, consult a staff.
3. Be Understanding : This is important. People are different with different outlooks and different attitudes. Try to be understanding and try not to start fights. Put yourself in the other person’s shoes and think for a bit. Calm yourselves down and just be polite to them.
10. No Harassment : I think this is an understood rule. Watch your words. Remember that some things you say, even if it’s meant as a joke, can hurt people. And if someone kindly tells you to stop, just stop. Carrying it on will only result in getting punished.
Though I do appreciate that you're attempting to calmly and rationally discuss it.
I was explaining myself, in all cases.
1. I said I was kidding, and didn't know people would take offence to it. Which I will, again, say I'm sorry for.
3. While it may seem like I was being agitated, I was just trying to explain to May and Chris why I thought it was funny when I first posted it. I didn't want to continue to joke if people didn't like it. That's why it didn't happen again after that.
10. This I already went through in my initial post.
Last Edit: Jul 13, 2016 10:52:16 GMT -5 by Flare: uncapitalized "I" was killing me.
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Post by Jie Shan Lan Dian on Jul 13, 2016 10:56:14 GMT -5
Atsuko really took the words out of my mouth there, and hit on the crux of the matter.
I should also say that, as the one who gave the warning, I should have mentioned the other rules Atsuko posted. But I guess that's what happens when this is the first thing I do in the morning
But the fact of the matter remains: it was rather rude, and if you'd apologized in the first place instead of trying to defend it, I'd have simply let it go with a verbal warning. But now, we're setting a precedent: jokes do not make things okay, and if one goes over in poor taste, simply apologize, instead of dragging it out. To me, that is the distinction here. I appreciate the fact that you're apologizing now, but it should have been done at first.
So, I think we're all in agreement, yeah? This won't happen again, since we're all better educated on the matter.
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I do understand where you're coming from. But it's less that you were explaining why it sounded funny to you at the time and more that you were adamant about not making a joke obvious that it was a joke.
Real talk, even setting aside that I'm a Moderator right now; there is a thin line between poking a little fun (and making it obvious as such), and then going for something a little more malicious like trying to get a reaction out of someone. Now I don't rule out the possibility that it wasn't intentional, and considering you're here trying to talk it out right now, I don't think it was.
But you gave off the implication that you were going for that type of reaction instead of say, poking a little fun through a joke.
But the fact of the matter remains: it was rather rude, and if you'd apologized in the first place instead of trying to defend it, I'd have simply let it go with a verbal warning. But now, we're setting a precedent: jokes do not make things okay, and if one goes over in poor taste, simply apologize, instead of dragging it out. To me, that is the distinction here. I appreciate the fact that you're apologizing now, but it should have been done at first.
I was explaining it to them, not defending the bad joke. Think I said this twice now. If i was defending it, I would have said it was still a good joke or something along the lines of it still being suitable for use when it's apparently not.
This is the same way I poked fun at Jarvis and Bernael a few times. Different words, different context, but it was still that straight-forward attitude between us. I'm inclined to believe at this point multiple people were offended because Motet was offended herself by it and by proxy it sprouted forth empathy from others. Not that it's intentionally bad, but it does lead to this sort of dogmatic approach to joking around with friendos that I don't really like.
It wasn't an intention to rile them up, or to bash on them. I figured at this point most people on site were able to take my blunt humor, but I suppose not. I felt the joke would have some sort of quirky comeback against it, too, so that we could all get some roastings in. Like "Says the person who left 3 times". That shit would have been funny.
The only one who got upset out of empathy would probably be May, because y'know. They're kinda together. Chris and the others took offense more on principle. In any case, I get that you weren't defending the joke, but you have to admit that in the heat of the moment it sorta looks that way, doesn't it?
It's as Jie said, the apology helps now, but it probably should have been the action taken when all of this first start escalating, rather than coming off as defending it.
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