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So, I've been giving it some thought and really thought hard on a certain topic. Just recently, I was in the cbox talking about it, to a certain extent. Now, what I'm thinking of is: Prices. Not just any prices, but two items in specific. The Dojo and the Martial Arts School. Both incredibly useful items set an somewhat absurd price that require progression.
Now let me tell you my gripes.
Your Dojo is 20,000 Zeni. Twenty thousand. Two, zero zero zero zero. Reasonable. You need this item to train your choice of fighting, which makes sense. Understandably at a high price.
Your MAS/Martial Arts School, is 25,000! Twenty-five thou. Numbers. This is where my gripe comes. In order to buy this item, at FULL price, you need to bug a dojo. Crap. That's 45,000 Zeni total. At this point I'm babbling, right? Look, I'm all for progression, story, development.
But, this crazy high price collides with someone whose story may revolve around a school. If one were to look into it, only one member of the site is actively pursuing a school. Me. I'm not special at all. But this intense price would require I do something that I'm ONE HUNDRED PERCENT AGAIN. I'd need to thread grind. Something I hate more than anything else because it fights with the growth of everyone else and feels EMPTY.
The point is, there should be an alternative. I understand that these items are "game changing" but the absurd price followed by the requirement of progression stunts people whose story could have a school involved! Plus, I have a serious problem with this required progression. You don't need to progress in weight tier, so why with schools? Where's the sense? Consistency?
While I unfortunately don't have many workarounds, I will say that Gouken's not the only one pursuing a School. Nasu has been working very hard at it himself, and he bought both at full price (a rather impressive feat, if I do say so myself)
I'm also working towards it with Atsuko (hence her huge Zeni at the moment) and Vaneera (why she's saving up so much Zeni at the moment)
I know that Cambia is also interested in the Kikokenjutsu Sword School, and of course, I remember Ermine mentioning that he'd like to get one as well. It's safe to assume that a lot of people are interested in the Martial Arts Styles, just... It takes awhile to get there.
Maybe it takes too long? It may very well be set too high, no one's saying it has to become incredibly cheap, or really easy to pull off... But maybe looking into alternate paths wouldn't be so bad.
I honestly believe that it's fine the way it is, mind you that's just my opinion. That path can have massive long term boosts to your character and should be hard to acquire. I'm also planning to go that route in the future and I feel as if it's alright.
Ah, I didn't realize more than few other people were seeking a school either. That alone should give a general idea of the items need.
Imo, alternatives would be lovely, so I agree wholeheartedly Atsu. However, atm, the only alts I can think of are: If a school is integrated to your story heavily, then that should set a beginning phase to one path. Having a school in your characters history signifies and solidifies its value and that's it not simply in the buzz of the moment. If a character holds that the Crane school was apart of his growing and learning, then that character should have rights to at least pursue the school with something of an edge, be it a very basic knowledge if the schools abilities or else.
Another path I'm thinking also works off of a school being associated heavily with a character. Its already one requirement to be at, what, about 50k PL, which is just a little small at this point, and then to spend 45k. Would it be so wrong for a character to take over a school that's vacant and lacks anyone else wanting it? I'm not saying to make the price extremely cheap or free, but to reduce it by like, 15 or 25% due to association.
Well, just my two cents on that idea, but...Discount by association would be a little unequal, especially given that most of us seeking a school don't have any association (But would honestly like to make said school part of our "canon" later on). The rest of the idea is tough for me to side with, on one hand, it DOES look hard to get, on the other...You get a free offensive and support technique, plus a spirit bomb-level special of your choosing, not even mentioning the bonuses to pl and stamina.
It's sort of an area I can see both sides of the argument.
I think the prices are fair for how important some of the schools icly can be pending if their premade ones or not. It's also not as hard to gain as you might think. I might refer to read some of nasu's past topics. He got his dojo at a pretty decent pace. It just means you'll have to spend some time focusing on Zeni over PL. It wouldn't take you as long as one might think if you'd remain focused on it. You'll just have to take the hit of not getting pl for awhile. Or the slow gradual build up of zeni.
I believe as well you can choose to charge your students if you want once you become a master so you can get some of that back if you choose to charge them. I think the only time can't refuse to teach is like. If its saiyan academy and a soldier wants to train or alliance and alliance soldier needs training. Or brench academy yada yada pto soldiers.
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I think the prices are fair for how important some of the schools icly can be pending if their premade ones or not. It's also not as hard to gain as you might think. I might refer to read some of nasu's past topics. He got his dojo at a pretty decent pace. It just means you'll have to spend some time focusing on Zeni over PL. It wouldn't take you as long as one might think if you'd remain focused on it. You'll just have to take the hit of not getting pl for awhile. Or the slow gradual build up of zeni.
I believe as well you can choose to charge your students if you want once you become a master so you can get some of that back if you choose to charge them. I think the only time can't refuse to teach is like. If its saiyan academy and a soldier wants to train or alliance and alliance soldier needs training. Or brench academy yada yada pto soldiers.
I am behind what Jarvis said 100% of the time <3 Prices stay the same <3
I think the prices are fair for how important some of the schools icly can be pending if their premade ones or not. It's also not as hard to gain as you might think. I might refer to read some of nasu's past topics. He got his dojo at a pretty decent pace. It just means you'll have to spend some time focusing on Zeni over PL. It wouldn't take you as long as one might think if you'd remain focused on it. You'll just have to take the hit of not getting pl for awhile. Or the slow gradual build up of zeni.
I believe as well you can choose to charge your students if you want once you become a master so you can get some of that back if you choose to charge them. I think the only time can't refuse to teach is like. If its saiyan academy and a soldier wants to train or alliance and alliance soldier needs training. Or brench academy yada yada pto soldiers.
See, that goes back to conflicting with character/growth. It's completely against my character to charge anyone for teaching. I understand that it's an optional thing, but that suggestion has to be thrown outta the window. As far as remaining focused on gathering Zeni, that's basically cash grinding, lol. Plus, again, Im not asking for a price drop. Im asking for some kind of alternative or some type of compromise on this extremely, imo, progression requirement. Returning to the weights, you dont need to buy Light Weights, then Medium and finally Heavy, do you? If that was the case, you'd get a total of 7k? Which isnt awful at all. But you get the idea. Athren said there's long term benefits, which is true but..you only get 25% for the Dojo. Less than Medium and Heavy. And it's not stated for MAS to grant anything equal to or greater than 25%. Hell, from the description alone, it doesnt mention any word of a bonus.
Again, Im seeking alternatives or something similar to it. And it's not me alone, because even Atsuko mentioned the idea of alternate options earlier on here.
Mastered Forms: Super Saiyan [x16], Super Saiyan 2 [x32], Super Saiyan 3 [x46]
Mastered God Forms: Super Saiyan God [x56], Super Saiyan Blue [x60]
Afterlife: Makaioken [x2-x10]
Advanced Scouter (Red), Perfect Medical Machine,
Training Dojo, Martial Arts School,
Palace of the King (Estate 75%)
Planet Yasai
Mothership (Star Javelin) +x2 Cargo Bay Adjustment
E.S. (Heaven's Arrow) +x2 Cargo Bay + Stealth
E.S. (Brave Vesperia) +x2 Cargo Bay + Stealth
I don't think it needs to be changed in regarding to pricing and all. And after we have a master it's fairly easy for someone to learn under him. Nasu won't be charging for teaching the soy school for alliance saiyans, that's optional and depends on the character.
We could review the price a little bit, but I still believe it should be hard and a journey. I did plenty of character development to reach that.
Also, if the school is vacant you CAN start learning the moment you buy a dojo! And that's already good!
I think the prices are fair for how important some of the schools icly can be pending if their premade ones or not. It's also not as hard to gain as you might think. I might refer to read some of nasu's past topics. He got his dojo at a pretty decent pace. It just means you'll have to spend some time focusing on Zeni over PL. It wouldn't take you as long as one might think if you'd remain focused on it. You'll just have to take the hit of not getting pl for awhile. Or the slow gradual build up of zeni.
I believe as well you can choose to charge your students if you want once you become a master so you can get some of that back if you choose to charge them. I think the only time can't refuse to teach is like. If its saiyan academy and a soldier wants to train or alliance and alliance soldier needs training. Or brench academy yada yada pto soldiers.
See, that goes back to conflicting with character/growth. It's completely against my character to charge anyone for teaching. I understand that it's an optional thing, but that suggestion has to be thrown outta the window. As far as remaining focused on gathering Zeni, that's basically cash grinding, lol. Plus, again, Im not asking for a price drop. Im asking for some kind of alternative or some type of compromise on this extremely, imo, progression requirement. Returning to the weights, you dont need to buy Light Weights, then Medium and finally Heavy, do you? If that was the case, you'd get a total of 7k? Which isnt awful at all. But you get the idea. Athren said there's long term benefits, which is true but..you only get 25% for the Dojo. Less than Medium and Heavy. And it's not stated for MAS to grant anything equal to or greater than 25%. Hell, from the description alone, it doesnt mention any word of a bonus.
Again, Im seeking alternatives or something similar to it. And it's not me alone, because even Atsuko mentioned the idea of alternate options earlier on here.
You see this where I disagree with Gouken. People worked hard for a Dojo and A School, and you want an easy way to safisity your needs? You can't rp for zenni like everyone else? is what I am getting at? You can rp for Zenni like you do For PL? Then that's not our problems that's your buddy. Prices Stay the same, I agree with Nasu and Jarvis they should stay the same.
No one is looking for an easy way to satisfy needs, Sithis.
As far as prices go, I feel like they could potentially be lowered slightly, and maybe a way to train yourself personally, just not anyone else until you fit the requirements for Master. Because Martial Arts is such an integral part of DBZ, and as it stands right now... Nasu is the only one that has managed to achieve it. I'm the only other person that's anywhere close to it at the moment. And ya'll know how active I am.
I feel it important to note too, not every character is a compatible student. And not every character is a compatible master. What I mean by that is, given how their history is going, Nasu would be unlikely to train Atsuko, even if he charged Zeni out of it. I don't see Nasu training Cambia either (and I don't see Cambia wanting to be trained by Nasu, either) So I feel like examining the big picture is definitely something important.
But I do ultimately agree that it needs to be difficult either way, it's something meaningful, it should stay that way. xD
I'm going to open up a school myself in the future, but I think it's pretty much fine as it is now. It shows how much you'd be dedicated to your own (martial) arts.
See, that goes back to conflicting with character/growth. It's completely against my character to charge anyone for teaching. I understand that it's an optional thing, but that suggestion has to be thrown outta the window. As far as remaining focused on gathering Zeni, that's basically cash grinding, lol. Plus, again, Im not asking for a price drop. Im asking for some kind of alternative or some type of compromise on this extremely, imo, progression requirement. Returning to the weights, you dont need to buy Light Weights, then Medium and finally Heavy, do you? If that was the case, you'd get a total of 7k? Which isnt awful at all. But you get the idea. Athren said there's long term benefits, which is true but..you only get 25% for the Dojo. Less than Medium and Heavy. And it's not stated for MAS to grant anything equal to or greater than 25%. Hell, from the description alone, it doesnt mention any word of a bonus.
Again, Im seeking alternatives or something similar to it. And it's not me alone, because even Atsuko mentioned the idea of alternate options earlier on here.
You see this where I disagree with Gouken. People worked hard for a Dojo and A School, and you want an easy way to safisity your needs? You can't rp for zenni like everyone else? is what I am getting at? You can rp for Zenni like you do For PL? Then that's not our problems that's your buddy. Prices Stay the same, I agree with Nasu and Jarvis they should stay the same.
I'm not asking for price drop, you fool! Clearly you're not paying attention, because in my previous post I literally just stated in hot asking for that! Obviously you're but skimming and not reading in full like a normal person and being extremely lazy, so let me reiterate for YOU: I'm not seeking price reductions, only alternative routes. That being said, I'm also not saying that it should be tremendously easy either. I just feel that you simply shouldn't be required to grab a light version and then a heavy version. Again, you dont do that for weights or even houses which have long term effects.
As I've said all opinions matter. Simply elaborate like Nasu, Jarvis, Ermine and Atsuko have.
I suppose the big problem that I and others would have with it is, it drops the implication that your character can't improve at all unless they have at least a Dojo. Which makes no sense, because this is basically saying that someone that manages to hit 500,000 PL is just as unrefined and relying on instinct as someone that has 5 PL.
It doesn't matter how much training or improvement the character strives to do; they can just channel more raw power into techniques. Another reason why it doesn't make much sense to me is because it makes the assumption that the only way anyone has ever achieved such heights is with a Dojo and accompanying Martial Arts School. It had to start somewhere, right?
You can already train yourself up as long as you have those two but no one to learn from. Which would make the process easier because you have something dedicated to it. But maybe... I dunno, something like
And then you can only refine your fighting style, you don't gain any techniques. I'm honestly fine with either way, but I can understand the arguments on the side that's like "This doesn't really make sense". But from a gameplay balancing perspective, it makes perfect sense.
That's my two cents on it. I'll let others discuss it from here on out. xD
Mastered Forms: Super Saiyan [x16], Super Saiyan 2 [x32], Super Saiyan 3 [x46]
Mastered God Forms: Super Saiyan God [x56], Super Saiyan Blue [x60]
Afterlife: Makaioken [x2-x10]
Advanced Scouter (Red), Perfect Medical Machine,
Training Dojo, Martial Arts School,
Palace of the King (Estate 75%)
Planet Yasai
Mothership (Star Javelin) +x2 Cargo Bay Adjustment
E.S. (Heaven's Arrow) +x2 Cargo Bay + Stealth
E.S. (Brave Vesperia) +x2 Cargo Bay + Stealth
With due consideration, I believe I've came up with some sort of solution here.
While I still believe people should put some effort into learning it from a school and stuff. The canon schools have a wide range of students, so I think we can allow a small learning for free, as long as there's no master on the school.
I disagree with Atsuko when she mentioned that a strong character would be just as clumsy as a weak normal fellow, but that's training! If you don't train, you don't polish your skill, you just get stronger.
So... For CANON SCHOOLS only. Anyone who reaches 20,000 PL could make a quest towards learning. They could flavor it as a NPC or finding scrolls of the school. This would allow them to learn the [BG] rank of the school. They can't create their own fighting style or anything, just learn from the stablished schools of their respective faction or something that is plot related and possible.
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